Opened 9 years ago

Closed 5 years ago

#1275 closed bug (invalid)

Problem with some groups name translations

Reported by: jeanyves Owned by: jeanyves
Priority: major Milestone: unassigned
Component: BW Group Keywords: groups words translations
Cc: fake51

Description

I think there is a problem in the way the groups.Name are used.

In the initial design, old BW, the groups.Name was supposed to contain a single word (like Musicians, Family, Rugby) which will be used to make a translation by adding the prefix Group_ to it. ie for Family group the corresponding word will be Group_Family. The problem now, is that in groups.Name we store what the creator of the group enter as a name for exemple queer, 2 spirit, trans, family equality this doesn't allow to managed properly the translation system (it is not very possible to translate a words which has comma in its code).

I would suggess to do the following fix:

  • when a new group is created with , for example id=367, create immediately a word with Group_Name_367 with the content of the name given (Without for forgotting to fill the words.description, with something like this is a group name created by XXXX, also making the translation priority low)
  • do same thing for the Description, create a word Group_Description_367 (Without for forgotting to fill the words.description, with something like this is a group description for group name of the group , also making the translation priority low).
  • Change the way the Name and Description are display to use this new coding rule
  • Run a script to rename all previously existing words (and not forgotting the description for these words)

I think it is a bit urgent, and this could solve several display problem especially when you have translation rights

Please comment

Currently for exemple you cannot translate the name of the group: Group_queer, 2 spirit, trans, family equality.

Change History (11)

comment:1 Changed 9 years ago by jeanyves

Addendum : this must also consider teh search in groupsName which will need to search in tarnslations

comment:2 Changed 9 years ago by jeanyves

  • Summary changed from Problem with some groups name translation to Problem with some groups name translations

Second Addendum: Peter thinks that translators should not spend time on translating groups name, I think he is right for very small group like 'worshipers of the mercury planet' but wrong for popular groups like 'families' or 'pen pal'. So, I will do the following:

By default groups names and descriptions will be in the words table but marked as not translatable, if a group becomes popular, it will be still possible to switch it to allow its Name and Description to be translated by Volunteers translators. It can even become automatic after the number member of a group reach a certian level.

Nota: descriptions of membership (the reason why a member has join a group) are not translatable by translators and are not stored in the words table. These texts belong to the member

comment:3 follow-up: Changed 9 years ago by fake51

  • Cc fake51 added; faje51 removed
  • Owner changed from Fake51 to fake51

I still oppose this. First of all, the 'not translatable' means very little - many translators completely overlook it and only realize that they have translated something they shouldn't have after they have done it. Secondly, groups are NOT the property of BW, they are created by members and should be maintained by members. I really don't think there's any reason why we should consider group names and descriptions the property of BW and something that we can do with as we please.

I can think of a compromise though: allow group owners/admins to mark name + description as 'Translation wanted'. If they do this, then BW translators can translate it if they want - otherwise no. Which means that group owners/admins should be able to translate things on their own, always, but it should only be possible for BW translators to do it if they're asked for it.

Before anything happens, though, we need to realize that this is principal discussion: what should the volunteers in BW do? Should they act as parents of members (translating all group names and descriptions)? Or should they limit their actions, letting members do what they want without interfering?

comment:4 in reply to: ↑ 3 Changed 9 years ago by jeanyves

  • Owner changed from fake51 to jeanyves

Replying to fake51:

I still oppose this. First of all, the 'not translatable' means very little - many translators completely overlook it and only realize that they have translated something they shouldn't have after they have done it. Secondly, groups are NOT the property of BW, they are created by members and should be maintained by members. I really don't think there's any reason why we should consider group names and descriptions the property of BW and something that we can do with as we please.

I can think of a compromise though: allow group owners/admins to mark name + description as 'Translation wanted'. If they do this, then BW translators can translate it if they want - otherwise no. Which means that group owners/admins should be able to translate things on their own, always, but it should only be possible for BW translators to do it if they're asked for it.

Before anything happens, though, we need to realize that this is principal discussion: what should the volunteers in BW do? Should they act as parents of members (translating all group names and descriptions)? Or should they limit their actions, letting members do what they want without interfering?

The NotTranslatable property of a word normally prevent the word to be enlisted in the to translate list and should prevent if from beeing clickable for translators. This is the way uncertain words are introduced.

Note that there is also a priority for translation of words, the compromise you propose suits me (it is the creator of the group who can decide to allows translators to translate his group description, by default it will be no) and I will add : The priority for the translation of this group desc will be set to low value (let say 9), to prevent overloading translators who work in the todo list (majority) with task of less importance.

The question about what do we want Volunteers to do is another discussion. CS model is control with no volunteers action in general (but they are less advanced for translation as BW).

Personnaly I really think that it is better to have 'Bikers' translated as Motards/Motorista? is better than having a french creating his own motards group and a spanish his motorista one. Both (French and Spanish) believing that this is a group for Bicycle

comment:5 Changed 9 years ago by fake51

That assumes you can avoid group duplication through translation of group names, which is rather unlikely, I would say. I'm pretty sure the better way to avoid that is implementing the category system that would allow people to browse/search categories first, before creating a group. And categories, unlike group names, I'm happy to see translated by volunteers.

In other words, I think this is the wrong solution to the problem you're really concerned about, i.e. group duplication. That doesn't mean that names + descriptions should be translatable of course.

comment:6 Changed 9 years ago by jeanyves

Categories will help, I will really help for groups. Do we have a ticket for it ? This will also help to reduce duplication

The point is that if there is a group "Soccer" in the Sports category, I am sure that someone will create a group "football"

An other reason for translation, unless we've stop to make an international organisation, is members understanding.

comment:7 Changed 9 years ago by fake51

Have a look at Groups - there you will see the various things that need to be done for groups and the related tickets.

One comment: if someone doesn't want to be part of the soccer group but wants a football group instead, they're more than welcome to start the new group. And as we don't have US-English and UK-English but just English, there's no way around the problem this example creates for you :)

And please, enough with quips about 'stop to make an international organisation'. I wrote that you're trying to solve a problem the wrong way, not that translation shouldn't be implemented. Please do me the favor of actually reading what I write.

comment:8 Changed 6 years ago by TimLoal

  • Priority changed from critical to major

comment:9 Changed 6 years ago by jsfan

  • Milestone Future deleted

Milestone Future deleted

comment:10 Changed 6 years ago by sitatara

  • Milestone set to unassigned

Is this still an issue? I thought that the translations for group names (and descriptions) are not used anymore (and that this is supposed to remain so). At least I can't see any translations on the website although the wordcodes are still in the translation lists.

I don't think it makes much sense to offer translations for group names since the group communication will usually be in one or two languages only anyway.

Can this be closed? Otherwise I would suggest to take this to the translations team.

comment:11 Changed 5 years ago by sitatara

  • Resolution set to invalid
  • Status changed from new to closed

no longer an issue - group names are no longer translated

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